The Slippery Slope to Compulsive Eating with Neena Perez

Speaker 0 00:00:02 Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try day after day. You pretend you don't hear calling. Maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse that it's there ready for you, and it will wait for you. And as long as you, my name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive. Speaker 1 00:00:46 Hi everybody, me and my friend, Nina Perez. We're so excited to welcome you to a special collaboration of our two podcasts. So this is a really special event for us. We're taking straight talk, no sugar added, and we're adding some refractive to it. And we're just going to make our own kind of a gumbo today. How are you doing Nina? Speaker 2 00:01:09 I'm doing great. And this is so much fun. I have been looking to collaborate with you for some time, as you know, and I'm so glad we both found that time that we can do this. So this is going to be a lot of fun. And I think it's going to be insightful too. Speaker 1 00:01:23 Yeah. And this is a topic that I know has touched both of our lives pretty deeply. I, I know that my listeners will, will recognize the theme and I imagine yours will too. Speaker 2 00:01:33 They will. I have another platform as well. Um, that's called memoirs of a fat girl and that's my health and wellness journey. So people know this about me. So this is going to be really fun. All right. Speaker 1 00:01:46 All right. So, uh, everybody just, uh, to pull back the curtain, we are talking about compulsion's and especially compulsive eating today and how it is so prevalent in our world. We're taught as kids that eating for comfort is a way to cope. And, you know, I mean all the way down to that hard wiring of the brain, it feels good to nourish ourselves, right? It feels good to take care of that basic needs and it can run a muck and, and become a problem later in life. I know that was the case for me. And, uh, Nina. It was the case for you too. Would you like to talk about, um, how eating for comfort became a struggle for you? Speaker 2 00:02:31 Yeah. Um, I mean, it's still a struggle, right? I mean, it's still an every day getting up, fighting it struggle. Um, so for me was I was abused as a child, so I couldn't find comfort where I was, uh, wasn't really being supported. So I didn't realize that this was what I was doing as a child, but I got really addicted to sugar. So it was like sugar sandwiches and, you know, spoonfuls of sugar and candy and whatever. And I think that the hardest thing about having an addiction like food is that it's so accessible and you need it, like you need it to survive. So, um, you know, for me, it was a way to cope with shame, um, with heartache, you know, feeling lonely. It just was, it was my, my friend. Speaker 1 00:03:22 Yeah. You know, I mean, like if I walked down the street drinking from a bourbon bottle, you know, people are going to look, but if I walked down the street eating a burger, like nobody looks at all because it's just, it's so easy for compulsive eating, for eating, for comfort and pain to look normal. Right. It's more society, it's more accepted by society than some of the other compulsion's, Speaker 2 00:03:51 It's so true. And, you know, I don't know if you went through this, um, because I also hit it, you know? So I ate some of it in front of you. Yes. So you would think I was normal, you know, some of it in front of you, but don't turn your back. Cause I'm out taking up stuff with me. Oh my gosh. Yeah, Speaker 1 00:04:14 Absolutely. And you know, uh, for me, um, while I wasn't abused as a kid, uh, I grew up in a pretty conservative area and I was a gay kid. And, uh, back then in the, in the late eighties and early nineties, it just, it was just not okay. And I went to all boys schools and it was tough and I just didn't know what to do with all of the pain and the rejection and the, the feelings that came up from that sense of emotional isolation and just like you, I, I ate. And then I hid when I ate the extra, I remember in college, I had a job at this restaurant and I took a piece of cheesecake in a to go box. And I went into the bathroom and sat in a stall in ADA, in the bathroom, like in the room. Speaker 2 00:05:09 I totally get that. I totally get that. It's so cool. Speaker 1 00:05:14 Crazy. Like, I can't even, you know, people who haven't gone through, what we're going through, can't even understand how you do that. You know? Speaker 2 00:05:25 I know. And, and what you're saying, I can't even see myself doing that. I totally relate. And I'm a chef by trade. Right. So I didn't even realize that. Yeah. I, I, I'm an executive chef. I'm a director of a culinary operation. That's what I do now. And so I'm around food quite a bit and good food. Cause we do a lot of farm to table and everything is from scratch and everything is delicious. And it's like, yeah, I always have to control myself. I always have to be like, okay. Yep. I'm going downstairs to my office. And I leave because I have to remove myself. Yes. And I still fail. There's days I fail, you know, like my, my son, my son was like, mom, where's all the Reese's peanut butter cups. I'm like, well, you left them there. I literally tire bag. He's like, really? I'm like, really, because I have a compulsion. Right. So if I eat one and there's three and four, I got to eat the three and four. It's like, yeah. You know, it's, it's a daily struggle still. Speaker 1 00:06:24 So before we go into the meat of this, where we talk about the role of pain and how, uh, you know, we use these compulsion's to deal with it. Um, I want to mention kind of like my, uh, uh, bottom in the recovery community, we call it the bottom. Right. So, uh, were eating to mask. That pain led me. I, uh, ended up, um, in my early thirties at 400 and twenty-five pounds. And I had gotten to the point, I had been a corporate trainer and I got to the point where by standing in front of a room all day, facilitating, when I finished for the day, my feet would like throb and they would be huge and swollen. Um, and I had varicose veins and all of this. And, um, I would finish the day in order to room service, dinners, and things like that. Speaker 1 00:07:21 And sit in my hotel and eat it. Um, I was on five prescriptions and including three blood pressure medicines, I was strapped to a C-PAP machine. Um, and I traveled for my job and I would get into those airplanes and God bless whoever had to sit next to me because I was taken up half of their seat, no matter what. And, uh, that was the life that I built for myself by using food to handle my pain. Um, until the day I was desperate enough to learn, to start processing the pain in a different way. Um, what was it like for you? Speaker 2 00:08:00 You know, sometimes I wonder I get frustrated cause I wonder sometimes if I even hit the bottom yet, you know, because it's still such a struggle. Um, but for me was I was having severe amounts of pain throughout my whole body. So I think the highest I reached is maybe close to two 60 and I'm only five, two. So there you go. Right. So, um, same thing with me, I would, I have the, the, you know, they give you that airplane belt extension that doesn't really extend, you know, I was like, I still can't clip this. This is a problem. So I was having pain throughout my entire body and I thought I had, um, you know, I went through like four different doctors. Nobody could figure it out. They thought I had lupus lines, disease, all that stuff. It ended up being that I, my body was rejecting certain things. Speaker 2 00:08:48 I was eating, I was becoming intolerant because I was having in consuming so much of it. So like blue in a dairy, you know, things like that. My body was like, okay, that's enough. And that's what happened. Like my, my joints in my body were kind of breaking down and fighting against itself and I'm like, I have to do something I'm, pre-diabetic, I'm about to start on cholesterol, medication, diabetes, medication, like something has to change. Um, but honestly, Johnny, sometimes I feel like frustrated cause I'm like, did I hit bottom yet? Because sometimes I still struggle. And I guess maybe I'll struggle with it all my life. Right, right. But there is a fear of going back up. I mean, I haven't lost a lot, but there is definitely a fear I still have about 70 so pounds to lose. Um, and it's a daily, daily fight. It's a daily fight. So I got to get up with that mindset. Always, you can do this. Today's a new day. You can do this. Speaker 1 00:09:45 Yes, absolutely. It's the same for me. In fact, last night I had, uh, two huge bowls of oatmeal before bed. I was hungry. It was like one, I just couldn't do it. I had to make a second bowl and you know, I'm grateful it was oatmeal, you know, cause there's the time of my life, where it had been two pizzas or two cakes, two things, ice cream, you know? So yeah. So, you know, when you and I were kind of, co-designing this episode, we talked about how, um, pain is actually a gift. Um, the reason we get a toothache is because there's something that needs to be taken care of before it causes too much damage. And you know, we have this emotional pain that we go through and uh, you know, in our society we shove it down and we cover it with liquor or food or gambling or sex or work or cleaning the house or codependency or whatever it is. And so how do you think this emotional and mental pain that we have is actually helpful? Speaker 2 00:10:54 I think that if you're going to do work on yourself, like self care and really look at yourself, you need to have the pain points because otherwise you're not paying attention, you know? Um, for me, right. It was depression, anxiety, right. That was my paint. Those were my pain points. And so I had to start changing my mindset and I only knew that those things were happening because I started to experience those things. Right. So as depression started to become a thing where I wouldn't get out of bed and that kind of stuff, or I was in a room and I thought I was like gonna, you know, drown with like this anxiety. I realized, okay, something's going on here? How do we deal with this? And that's what I started doing is trying to work on myself, doing self care, looking at it in the eye and figuring out what it is. A lot of it, believe it or not came from, uh, unforgiveness. Yeah. You know, it came from that pain, you know, from what happened to me as a child and, and my life, my past. And then I'm like, you know, I have to deal with these issues. So to answer your question, that's what it did, the depression and stuff. Being the pain point. I had to start taking care of myself. I couldn't ignore it anymore. Speaker 1 00:12:07 Yeah, that's right, man. Speaker 2 00:12:09 A whole box of Krispy Kreme donuts by myself, by myself. And especially if they're warm Speaker 1 00:12:18 Amateur, amateur, I would go to Buka to Beppo. Okay. You know, the family style restaurant on Friday at the end of the work week. And I would get to catering trays of pasta and have a cake. And that was my, that was my Friday night and the half that carb load. Oh my God. It would, uh, by the end of eating all of that in the period of like 20 minutes, um, my body would like shut down. I would just pass out the fat, the sugar, the carbs. I couldn't handle it. You know what I mean? Speaker 2 00:12:54 So 20 minutes. So you're a fast eater as well. Yeah. Cause I can eat. Speaker 1 00:13:00 Oh yeah. It was a spectacle. It was a spectacle. And you know, like you mentioned, I find, you know, that pain, that pain is like a check engine light. And um, you can't go out because, you know, for some people going through a death of a loved one or going through being fired or going through whatever, it's just a part of life. And for other people, it spirals them into just something deeper. And, um, a good measurement for me was if I'm doing something I don't want to do, right. I don't want to eat until it hurts my body. I don't want to eat until it shuts me down from chemical overload, but I was doing it and I couldn't not do it. And there's the there's there's the, the test for me is something is that's the check engine light is something. So out of control is something so painful that I'm doing something I don't want to do in can't style. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:13:58 And it becomes something like, it's like this love, hate thing. Right? It's like, you do it, you hate that you do it, but you almost like love to do it. It's like this weird thing. And then after you do it, and I dunno if that's the way you feel, but I always feel so angry with myself that I let myself go there. You know, again, you know, like again, you know, so this is vicious, a self-sabotaging behavior, you know? And that's what I think what I'm trying to figure out right. Is why do I keep self-sabotaging? You know, why don't, I think I'm valuable enough to not keep sabotaging myself because I would never let you do that. If you were with me, I wouldn't let you do that. You know, in my language. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know why we do that to ourselves. And I know we're not alone in this. No. And Speaker 1 00:14:52 You know, that was, um, that was the turning point for me. I was in, um, a drive-thru and it was the fourth drive-thru I went to in a row. There were, there were four fast food places next to each other. And, um, and as I was ordering five, six, seven items from each place, there was this, I remember, um, this inner voice that was like yelling. It's like, why are you hurting yourself? Stop? And I ordered another thing and it's like, why, why stop? Don't you're hurting yourself. And I ordered another thing and I'm eating from the last place I went to while I'm ordering the next thing. And you know, maybe not everybody listening has gone through those extremes that you and I are talking about, but any time we are doing something that is not good for our life. Right. Despite the fact that we don't want to do it, it deserves attention, you know? Yeah. Speaker 2 00:15:51 Yeah. I mean, and you're right. I mean it, and I think you mentioned this earlier, too, it doesn't have to be food. Right. It could be anything, right. People get addicted to opioids and they didn't even realize they were addicted. Right. They just, you know, and I don't know if you went through this as well or go through this. I always used to have that mentality. I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it tomorrow. And then tomorrow is 20 years later and I'm still doing it tomorrow, you know? And I still didn't get my life together. And it's like, now I am 48 years old and you know, 70, 80 pounds overweight. And I'm just like, okay, are we still gonna wait for tomorrow? Cause you've been waiting for 20 years, girlfriend. I don't think it's coming. You know, it's some point you just have to begin. Speaker 1 00:16:36 Yeah. You know, that's why those were recovery programs they just for today because they know tomorrow never comes. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:16:44 Isn't that true? You'll always, I think, I don't know if everybody's brain works like that. I just know that for me, you know, I, I make jokes about this on my show, on my other podcast. I'm always like, listen, I'm a fat girl. Let me tell you how fat girls think. You know, I said, I always wait until the first or the first of the week or the next day or the beginning of the year. Yeah. Yeah. That's when, you know, instead of starting, like you just mentioned today, just starting today. Speaker 1 00:17:12 That's right. You know, um, one of, some of the notes that you and I were talking about that I, I think are so rich, you mentioned just earlier about why am I sabotaging myself? And you know, there's so much around self-worth and, uh, boundaries and codependency and external validation and it just leads to this cycle of shame, you know? Um, what do you think about like, what are your thoughts on how shame applies to this? Oh man. Uh, you know, I just did Speaker 2 00:17:50 A whole thing on shame because I realized as I'm growing up, as our wrote my book, as I'm doing all of this, that I had, that I realized there's two types of shame, at least the way I see it. Right. It's the shame of what people did to me. And I couldn't do anything about it and I felt ashamed that it happened to me. Yeah. And then there's also shame that I carried from things I've done, you know, things that I've done that I'm not proud of. And, you know, shame played a huge part in validating my, or feeling worthy, you know, because I did things that I'm ashamed of, you know? So it just makes me feel like almost like a beat up of myself. I, I was almost eating to beat myself up, even though I felt like I should be doing something better for me. Speaker 2 00:18:37 Cause if it was like I said, if I was with you right now and you told me I'm going to go have that pizza or those two pies, I would say, absolutely not, not on my watch. Right. You know, because I would care about you and I care externally about people very much, but there's something about, you know, just digging in and saying, you have to care about you too, girlfriend. You know, this is you're, you're important too. Um, so shame plays a huge part in how you feel and when you're overweight, you're now ashamed of being overweight. That's the, yeah. Like, so now you're beating yourself up for two things like the shame, your inside and your shame on how you look on the outside. So you're pulling your shirt all the time. You're fixing your sleeves. You're you know, it's, I mean, I'm sure you've experienced that. Right. Well, how do you feel about the shame playing a part in your Speaker 1 00:19:27 Oh man, shame was a trigger for my eating. You know, I got to tell you if ever I had a layover, um, between flights, uh, I guarantee the first thing I went and did was found food because I was so ashamed of right, right of the seat, hurting me or taking up the space of another person and making them uncomfortable. I was just so ashamed. And anytime I had shame, if I, uh, I mean, I wasn't dating very much by the time I got to that weight. But, um, uh, but earlier than that, when I was maybe 300 pounds and I still would go on a date from time to time, if the date didn't go well, or if I felt I wasn't seen as attractive enough after the date I would go eat. Right. Because shame was a trigger for me. Um, anxiety was a trigger for me. You know, anger was a trigger for Maumee too. Yeah. Oh my God. Tell me, tell me Speaker 2 00:20:27 No. I mean, I don't know what that is either. Right? That's like, uh, I realized that I am an emotional eater. So I do eat when I go through emotions. If I'm very nervous. I E if I'm angry, like if somebody truly like betrayed me or pissed me off, I go eat, you know, um, if I'm bored, if I'm bored, you know, I'm like, okay, what is in the pantry? You know what I'm saying? Like, I need to find, Oh, maybe I'll make some popcorn and do this and make that. I mean, you know, and I'm a chef, right? So if I'm bored, the first thing I'm doing is creating like these meals in my head, and then I'm out there looking for stuff, you know, I'll even get to the point where I'm just like, you know, I'll be back. I'm going to go to the store and get some ice cream. Speaker 2 00:21:09 It's like 10 o'clock at night. What am I doing? Go to the supermarket and get ice cream. You know, I don't need that. You know, but yeah. Shame is, shame is huge and emotional eating is huge. And a lot of people don't even realize they're doing that. I don't know if you do this, but I'm also sometimes a mindless eater. So I'm not even thinking, you know, I, I did an episode on how I ate an entire box and I know this is probably amateur, but I had a whole box of fig Newtons. They're my favorites. Right. So I had this big family size pack and I put it next to me and I'm typing on the computer and I'm mindlessly eating. I get to the last one. And I'm like putting my hand in the box, like, Oh, shoot that. So my husband said, please tell me, you ate some of these guns. He goes, no, I hate fig Newtons. I'm like, Oh my gosh. I just ate a whole box by myself in one sitting. Speaker 1 00:22:05 <inaudible> the sensible she just dropped. Yeah. You know? Oh my God, Speaker 2 00:22:12 Gosh, this is real stuff. Right. I mean, so do you go through that as well? Like do you now, now that you've lost quite a bit of weight and you, I don't think you mentioned how much you've lost, but now that you've lost that weight, do you find yourself sometimes going back to those old habits? Speaker 1 00:22:32 Oh, for sure. So I am current, I am a compulsive eater. Like you said, I don't know if that'll ever go away. I lost 200 pounds. Um, and that was not through surgery or anything. It was through, it was through a recovery programs for compulsive eating. And, uh, and that was wonderful. But you know, like you said that you have about 70 pounds to go for me. My, my, my weight does go up and down. Um, right now I have about 80 pounds, uh, that I, I would need to lose if I got to my healthy, uh, doctor prescribed body weight. And, you know, Hey, I'm glad to be 80 pounds overweight as opposed to 200 and some odd pounds overweight. But, um, you know, I can live a normal life. I can get on a plane. I can do that. Now. I'm just a heavy guy, you know, I'm just like one of those heavy guys you see. Um, but I still, um, I still go through compulsive eating when I go to the store. Um, I need to stay away from the ice cream aisle because if I romanticize it for just a second longer than I need to, you know, I can, I can look at it for a, for a minute or two. Once I go longer than that, like I pull back, I've gone too far into the quicksand and I can't get out and I'm going to, I'm going to spend $25 on junk food. Speaker 2 00:23:54 Right. And are you a sugar addict as well? Do you like, are you like, are you more into like the, the fat and salty? Are you into more like the sweet sugar Speaker 1 00:24:04 Sweets is my first is my first love, but I got to tell you, uh, you know, fat, fat and salty is a close second, you know, Speaker 2 00:24:14 Sometimes combined, right. If I scribbled a little bacon on top, there you go. Speaker 1 00:24:20 That's right. So that's, I'm still, I'm S I still face that. Um, I still face that, you know, I'm lucky because like my face doesn't show it so much. So like on zoom, I'm like, Oh, look how cute I look. But, uh, you know, I still have like that. I still, I still have, uh, I'll just say a little pear shaped going on, Speaker 2 00:24:41 Hey, listen, you're still 200 pounds less. Can I ask you though how you did that? Because that that's huge. Right. So that's an everyday battle. I'm sure that that is like getting up every day and making a decision. Right. Speaker 1 00:24:55 So, yeah, it was, it was really through, um, through recovery. It was through recovery through 12 steps, you know, um, you know, and I, uh, it CA it came down to, um, it came down to identifying which foods and which behaviors, not just foods that I had a record of abusing. So I knew for example, that if I went through a drive-thru, even if my intention was to order a salad, even after losing a significant amount of this weight in recovery, if I went through a drive-through, there was a really good chance. Like I couldn't escape without bingeing. Um, so I had to stop going through drive-throughs no matter what I could get out of the car and go into a subway or whatever, and I could order whatever I need, but drive throughs were off limit, you know, for a while, it was also eating in the kitchen was off limits because these were behaviors that once I started, I just knew it took a superhuman amount of strength for me to stop. Speaker 1 00:26:16 Um, these are things I didn't want to do, but I couldn't stop it. Nonetheless. And then I made a list of the foods that I called them were noisy, noisy in my head. I knew that if I bought a and not all of them were unhealthy foods, um, but there were noisy foods and I just had to leave them alone. Like you said, remove your body from them. I had to say, I'm not going to buy fried food no matter what. And even if I go to somebody's house and that's what they served, I'm gonna have to face the courage to say, thank you so much. It looks great. And I, you know, I just can't eat that. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And, uh, and so once things made that list, I had red light foods. I had yellow light foods, which, which I had a more likely record of not bingeing on, but I certainly could. Speaker 1 00:27:08 Um, you know, and, and if, if, if anything was a red light food, no, I don't eat dog food and I don't eat that. You know, that's good. My mantra, you know, I don't cook and I don't eat dessert. I don't write dog food and I don't eat pasta. I think I'm going to steal that. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, for me, it's not fun for me, dog. Food's not good for me. And pasta is not good for me. It might be great for someone else. It's not good for me. You know? So that's what I would, if, if someone asks me for advice, I would say, make a list, go through, go through your whole history and make a list of what foods and behaviors feel out of control when you start them. And so just love yourself enough to say, I just won't start it because if you don't have to stop, and it doesn't mean forever. It doesn't mean forever for now. At this time in my life, I can't buy ice cream. And am I willing to let go of ice cream, uh, for serenity, for serenity. And that means that if all my friends say, let's go get yogurt today. It just means that I can go with them. But I know if I take one bite, I'm going to go to that one bite afterwards, and I'm going to buy ice cream. Right. Speaker 2 00:28:30 And that's something where you have to know your triggers. You have to know your triggers. That's really good advice. And I'm going to take that advice. Actually, I never thought about like doing a node list and putting like the red, you know, foods like don't touch these just don't. I mean, that's what I do now with like gluten, because I know gluten will, it hurts me for days and days when I take it. So I just don't and you know, I have the same thing, Johnny. Like we went somewhere, I forgot me. And my husband went, Oh, we went to the mall and they had those soft pretzels, you know? And I'm like, Oh, let's just get a few. Well, of course I paid the price for like four days. Right. But it's like, why did I even do that? Like, I could have gotten something else. You know, they could've gotten a bowl of fruit. I could have gotten anything, but I just wanted the soft pretzels. You know what I mean? And I just, I have to do what you did. Like, I don't eat dog food, so I don't eat gluten or I don't eat these. I just don't know. That's a, that's a good way to look at it. Speaker 1 00:29:27 Yeah. Yeah. And you know, like once for me, for me, I can only talk about for me. Um, once the sanity had returned to me for a period of time, then I could dip my toe in the water and, you know, uh, okay. Someone serving ice cream, um, I'm going to do a test after I eat this ice cream. Am I thinking about ice cream for the next three days? Yeah. If I am, then it's still red light for me, you know? And that's it. And sometimes, sometimes your, your, your list changes, you know, for me pizza, I can't do pizza. Like even if I just have one piece of pizza, like I just can't, I can't, I will go back. Maybe not today, maybe two days from now. And then it's off to the races. Speaker 2 00:30:21 Right. And you're, you're talking real, you're talking real stuff because that's, that's actually true. It's almost like it just sits in the back of your head, literally talking to you every day and you can't even get it out of your mind. Right. It's almost like, why are we thinking about this still? You know, this is why every time I go down, down South, like whether it's Florida or Georgia or anything, I cannot ever get Krispy Kreme donuts. Like, I'm not joking. I can literally inhale an entire dozen and probably more if you let me, you know, so when we go and, and as soon as they say, no, don't even mention it. Don't talk about it. You know, on top of the fact that it's sugar, it's also gluten and dairy, which I can't have, you know, but I'm just like, so I don't eat dog food. I, Tony Krispy Kreme donuts, Johnny, I'm taking it. I'm telling you Speaker 1 00:31:12 Look, Nina. This is what I would say too. Like, can you love yourself enough to tell your family? No, no. To tell your FA you know, because Nina, have you, were you ever a smoker? Yeah. Okay. Do you still smoke? No. No. I spend 25 years. Okay. So you, but you know that if you had a cigarette today, you'd be fine. You can smoke one cigarette and they never touch it again. But then we'll wait though. Tomorrow or three or four days from now. And you'd be like, well, I had a cigarette. It wasn't a problem. Right. Problem. I'm fine. So the next time someone offers you a cigarette, you're like, okay, it's not a problem. And then during the conversation, you're like, let me get a second one. Right. But then you're fine. And you might go another couple of days and you're like, see, it's not a problem. I can take it or leave it now. But then all of a sudden you're like, well, I don't want to ask someone for cigarettes. Let me just buy a pack. And I can just keep Speaker 2 00:32:08 Whoever. Yes. Speaker 1 00:32:10 Yes. And the thing is that people look at heavy people and they think what a loser, why doesn't this person try to like, take care of himself? What a gross, lazy person who doesn't care about himself. But it's not. It's like smoking. It's like, once you, that's why that's why diets don't work for people like me. Because once I stop, once things feel like it's not dangerous anymore. I'm like, Oh, it's not. And then it's not tomorrow that I fall off the truck. But all of a sudden two weeks from now, I don't know how I ended up back where I, where I started, you know? Speaker 2 00:32:48 Oh, you're speaking it that's, that's so true. And I feel the same way. I'm glad you said that because diets don't work for me either. I've had to change my whole life thinking the way I think in the way I feel about myself. Every time I started diet Johnny, I always like say it's, I don't know, 90 days on paleo or keto or whatever it is. I might do the 90 days. But once I hit that 90 days off, I go, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm free now. I could do whatever. And it never worked for me. I remember way back in way back. I did Atkins, right. I lost like 65 pounds or something. I looked amazing. The minute that I got to, the thing I had to do, which was my wedding. I started eating carbs again and blew up to 85 more pounds. Like what the heck? Right. But you're right. I mean, it's all about like, making it completely about a lifestyle to care about yourself and not about a diet, plant diet plant. Like maybe like having some parameters would be good, but not just, I'm not just doing it for a certain amount of time. That doesn't work for me. Speaker 1 00:34:01 Right. And you know, I was saying I got sidetracked, but I was saying, you know, can you love yourself enough to tell your family know if your partner was an alcoholic in recovery, would you go buy a bottle of bourbon and drink it in front of your partner? Like that's not supportive. And so if, if Nina, if your red light foods are X, Y, and Z, like it's just a fact, the people you live with are going to have to not bring it into the house. And you know, you need to understand that I will hurt myself with this. If you bring it, do you want me to hurt myself? I can't stop. So please love me enough to go eat your Krispy. Kremes when you're not with me, you know, it's not that much to ask. I don't think we all think we're worth it. I think a normal person should be able to handle this, and I'm not going to inconvenience my loved ones by making them suffer. Well, you know what too bad, if not suffering that you can't bring Krispy Kremes into the house. Speaker 2 00:35:08 Yeah. Deal with it. Exactly. And you know what another thing is, and I don't know if you've ever done this, but I do, uh, you know, I have, um, you know, I have children, my husband. Okay. So what I do and I've had to stop doing is I buy it for them. So I buy what I really want, but not for me, for them. You know what I mean? I don't know if that's a way to self-soothe, you know what I mean? Like, Oh my, my husband loves Reese's peanut butter cups. So I'll buy him. Cause he have anything he's he's fine. Yeah. I'll buy him. Reese's peanut butter cups, but then I'm like, damn, he's having condoms. You know? So I, I don't know if it's a self-soothing thing, like watching them eat these things makes me feel better. I don't know. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:35:51 You Nina, I don't believe you. I think you buy those Reese's peanut butter cups to keep that door cracked for yourself to have some restrictions. Speaker 2 00:35:58 Oh yeah. We called you out for a second. We're going to have to talk straight. Talk me shit. Exactly. Yeah. That's right. But that is all that's facts. We drop in facts. Um, because I, I do tend to start thinking about it and Oh, I know where he keeps them and you know, but I bought them. I bought them, you know? Yeah, that's right. You're right. I mean, I think so. I think it goes both ways. I think, yes. Our families do have to be involved in our recovery and this is really a recovery process, a daily one, a daily one, because like I said, in the beginning, we also need food to survive. So for somebody like you and I, who has, uh, eating problems, eating disorders, compulsion's, it's a very difficult thing to manage because it is something you do need to survive. Speaker 2 00:36:51 You do need food. I don't know about you, but I was also never taught on how to eat properly, you know, especially growing up. Right. So we really came from poverty and you know, my mother had like, you know, welfare and stuff like that. So we would get like a lot of sugary cereals and you know, that kind of stuff. Cause it was cheap. Right. So everything was in a camp. Exactly. It was all in cans, all in boxes. Um, she was a great cook, but it was we're Hispanic also. So it was a lot of rice and you know, things like that. I just never learned how to eat. Right. And so I found a lot of comfort in bad food, you know? So yeah. And you're still dealing with it as an adult. Right? Johnny. I mean, you grow up 100% and you're like, I'm an adult. I should be able to do this. Speaker 1 00:37:34 Yeah, no, I don't cook. I don't cook like casseroles. I don't cook. I can't, they call me there in the refrigerator like Johnny, Speaker 2 00:37:44 Johnny, Johnny, Johnny. That's real Speaker 1 00:37:47 Cool for you to just eat me while you watch TV. Speaker 2 00:37:50 Right, right, right. You worked hard, you worked hard. Speaker 1 00:37:53 Yeah. Yeah. There are things I can't do. And you know, um, we talked about, uh, kind of some what to do if eating is a problem and, and a couple of intensities, do you, um, do you have the notes on that? Do you want to cover some of those points? Speaker 2 00:38:10 Yeah. If eating is a problem, like we were talking about, um, um, mindfulness is the most effective self-defense right. The most effect. And I agree with that and I know you are, um, really big on this as well. So I'd love you to touch on this. So how do you incorporate mindfulness into like this daily struggle? How do you do that? That's right. Speaker 1 00:38:33 So one of the tenants of like my, uh, you know, I I'm, I'm a coach and I have a coaching practice and like one of my tenants is you already know, you already are like these, this is a deep truth for me. And it's because we have all of them science and knowledge, we need built into us. It's hardwired in us. But the thing is that when you stop listening to it, it gets quieter and quieter and quieter. So the process of like being aware of what's happening right now allows me to know, am I really hungry? Like, wait, wait, wait. Because sometimes hunger and let's say a shame trigger or an anger trigger or an anxiety trigger feels similar. So it takes a minute to say, am I really hungry right now? Or am I just upset? Yeah. You know? And so that mindfulness of coming into the present moment and examining the moment that is so valuable. Speaker 2 00:39:36 So good. Do you use that in conjunction to also walk away from a meal? Like, like say something's in front of you and you're like upset about something or do you also say, okay, hold on and walk away for a second to think, Speaker 1 00:39:51 Oh, that is difficult beyond measure, like, you know, to leave something on the plate and it's really hard. Um, I can't say that I haven't done that. Yes I have. But what I try to do is apply mindfulness into serve, serving my plate. Um, because once it's on the plate, I just, it's almost unthinkable to leave, to leave four beans on the plate. There's just no way, like, you know, Speaker 2 00:40:21 Do you think that's an, do you think that's part of the upbringing, like cleaning your place? Speaker 1 00:40:25 I think a lot. I think, I think for the, for, I think it, yeah, I think that there's definitely a cultural aspect to that. Um, but for me, I think it's less cultural. I, I hear a lot of people say that it's like, they were raised in a situation where if you wasted food, like it was a big mine. Speaker 2 00:40:46 It's a huge deal. Yeah. Yeah. And so I find myself doing the same thing. I find myself cleaning my plate, nothing gets thrown out and I'm a chef. Right. And I work in a place where we, my kitchen is about sustainability. So we use everything. We, you know, we grow our own garden, you know, all of that stuff. Right. So, um, it's a phenomenal way to be. But it also, as a person who gets triggered, right. When something's on my plate, it has to be eaten. So sometimes I'll serve myself a smaller plate, but you know, what I don't do all the time is sit down after I VE in that and say, is this enough? Speaker 1 00:41:22 Oh, that's so helpful. You Speaker 2 00:41:24 Know? Yeah. Like I, you know, you, you served yourself what a normal person would eat. Are you okay right now? Because sometimes I won't think it, cause I'm a fast eater, so I eat really fast. And then of course it's not even true. The single didn't even go up to the brain yet to say you're full. Yeah. I'll go get myself that second plate now I'm overfull. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. So you know what I'm talking about Speaker 1 00:41:49 For sure. And you know, like we talked, we mentioned earlier that not everybody goes to, has the same extreme relationship with food that you and I have experienced. Right. You know? And so, um, for those listeners who just can't quite relate to this, um, you know, I think that eating for comfort from time to time is normal. Part of our experience in society, the same way that some people, when they have a hard day, sit down with a glass of wine or two, like that's, that's normal. Like that's typical and that's fine. You know, if, if, if you're upset and you find yourself eating a half, half of a pint of ice cream, uh, you know, like that's fine. You know, but when it becomes you doing things you don't want to do, that's the, that's the difference here. So, you know, I recommend for people who find themselves occasionally, uh, eating in a compulsive way, those are the people that I think diets really help or having an accountability buddy. Um, because shame, we talked about shame, shame lives in darkness. Yes it does. When you shine light on shame, it evaporates. And so calling someone and saying, listen, best friend. I really feel like I want to eat a pint of ice cream right now. And I know that it's not good for me. And will you just tell me that it's okay and that I don't need to eat that. Having someone else say, yeah, we've all been there and it doesn't sound good for you. Right? Like that is powerful. It is because the shame evaporates. Speaker 2 00:43:30 Right. But you need the right people to Johnny because some people will go ahead, girls just here's just for today. It's only that pint of ice. Speaker 3 00:43:39 Okay. When you're like, no, that's not what I need. No, no. You have to set them up in advance. You have to set up that. Right. Right. Speaker 1 00:43:45 Good point. I'm glad you said that. Cause I forgot that. Yeah. You definitely need to say when I call you, because food is a pattern for, you know, food is a problem for me. I really need you to speak to me from a place of balance. Speaker 2 00:43:58 Yeah. Yeah. It's like I told my husband, I said, honey, sometimes I think you love me to death. I think you're loving me to death. And he goes, what do you mean? I'm like, you're always wanting. Cause he always wants to make sure I'm comfortable. I'm comforted. Right. So he'll bring stuff home that he's not supposed to. And I'm like, I cannot eat. Okay. You're going to kill me. I know you love me to death, but I don't think it's literally like, you don't have to kill me now. You know? And he's like, Oh, you're so dramatic, but it's not. I don't think they realize that. Yes. I'm a strong person. I work hard. I have a, you know, I, I, I'm a go getter. That's who I am. So I think don't see too much weaknesses in me. Right. But I know that this is one of them. Speaker 2 00:44:37 I know it is, you know, it's is a daily struggle. And so, you know, for those of you who are listening and watching, you know, you're not alone. If you are struggling, you are not alone and you're not crazy either. Cause sometimes you feel like, am I crazy? What am I doing? You're not crazy. This is something all of us go through and it's good to have a good support system. It's really good. And if you don't have anyone around you, that is a support system or somebody, you know, you don't have a big family or anything like that. Find yourself a group that can support you. That's right. Um, right. I mean, you were talking about that earlier. I mean, you, you went through a program yourself and those are really, you know, that can be very helpful. Speaker 1 00:45:17 Right? Exactly. Cause there's like a whole spectrum of help out there. You know, if you're someone who's only occasionally out of control, get a diet and uh, you know, get an accountability, buddy. If you're finding yourself out of control frequently, even if your life isn't off track, you know, then, you know, get a nutritionist, get a therapist, right. These are people who can really help, uh, uh, kind of help heal before it becomes too dramatic. If, if the quality of life is impacted for you, then there are some more, um, serious options. And, you know, um, I'll just mention there are treatment facilities for eating disorders, um, where you can do inpatient or outpatient. You can Google that and find some of those. Um, there are, uh, there's 12 step programs. Um, you know, there's a couple of different varieties of 12 step programs that deal with eating disorders. And so, uh, you can Google that as well. And you know, of course 12 step programs are free. They don't cost anything. Um, and typically, yeah, they typically apply the same tools and methods that are used with alcohol to other compulsion's. And so, um, uh, that, that is, uh, you know, those are the type of treatment programs that I used and that helped me. Um, and you know, so there's that whole spectrum and you can research what feels right for you. Speaker 2 00:46:49 And you know, also I think a big part would be self-acceptance knowing who you are, accept who you are. It's okay. Um, my son, my son is, Oh, he's older now. So he's, he's definitely learned to embrace himself. My son is gay. And when he was younger, when he was struggling with that, he also found a lot of comfort in food. By the time he was about 13 years old, he was way into the 200 pounds. He's like two 20 at 13, you know? So once he found himself in, he accepted who he was and he said, you know, momma and gay. And he just, he and, you know, embrace that. Now he lifts weights all the time. He's in sports in nutrition, you know, like all of that, like as soon as you start to embrace your flaws, if you have flaws and you know what, what you are and who you are as a person too, that also helps us to release on any kind of shame that you're holding. Speaker 2 00:47:42 Right. Especially shame that was put on you. That's not even your shame to hold, take that off first, just get rid of that. You know, it's, if somebody did something to you, that's on them, not on you that's, you know, um, and if you did do something you're ashamed of forgive yourself, forgiveness is huge. And when you start to forgive the person who hurt you and yourself, there's just this weight that lifts right off of you start to see a little bit more clearly, right? It's cause this, this thing that me and you have, Johnny is a mental game, really, you know, nobody's forcing us to get anything in our hands. Nobody's forcing us to put anything down our throat. It's all in, it's all in the mind. Right. It's all in how we feel at that moment and what we're following, right? Yes. So, yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned the programs. I didn't realize that some of them were free. That's fantastic. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:48:34 You know, like those inpatient and outpatient programs aren't necessarily free, you know, but like 12 step, 12 step fellowships are always free. Like that's, that's, that's a, a part of it. And um, yeah. You know, it's just, it's, uh, like I said, shame, shame lives in darkness. And the minute that we can find enough courage, I won't even say love for ourselves because maybe that comes later, but the minute you can find enough courage to go to someone that, you know, won't ridicule you and say, I just feel really heavy in my heart about X, Y, Z. Um, you know, that burden starts to lift. And, uh, you know, because like, like you said, with your son, it's shame is a trigger and, uh, uh, it's about finding that peace and love. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:49:28 This is such a great conversation, Johnny. Oh my gosh. And I learned a lot. I'm going to look into a few of those things. You mentioned. Definitely. One of the takeaways for me from our conversation is, um, besides the self care is, um, the mindfulness, like having that mindfulness when you're eating, putting the, putting the, the group, the grouping of foods, right? So this is my red, this is yellow. This is great. That is brilliant. Brilliant. Because, um, I'm very methodical. I need things done a certain way and I'm very organized that way. So that would work for me, you know, like, Oh, this is red. Yeah. That's red, you know, it's dog food. Not doing that. Yeah. I love that. Um, so thank you for that and what, you know, the weight loss that, because I'm still on my journey. Like I said, I buy, I have about 80 pounds to lose. And, uh, but I'm very proud of you. I'm very, very proud of you. I really am. I think that what you did was extremely hard because at 400 plus pounds, and it's really hard to look at that and say, how am I going to deal with this? Right. So the takeaway is nothing is Speaker 1 00:50:37 Possible. That's right. That's right. Nothing is impossible. You can do this. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:50:42 You know, because I don't want people who are like five or 600 pounds thinking, that's it. I'm, I'm uh, I'm done. I'm done. Speaker 1 00:50:49 No. Uh, let me tell you, I'm going to close it out with this. I'm going to say that when I was, you know, when I was on a half dozen medications, unable to stand and do my job unable to fly, um, socially isolated, I believed that it was my fate to fade into dark. That's what I believed. I believed that my best case life scenario was to lose 50 or 75 pounds. I would stay in like the mid three hundreds. Maybe I could find someone to spend my life with. And I would just trudge that road forever. That's what I believed was my best case scenario. Because in my mind, if someone lost 200 pounds, they would make a documentary about them. Like that's so huge who loses the weight and keeps it off. You know, you hear people lose weight and then they gain it right back plus more. Speaker 1 00:51:50 And so I just didn't think it was real. And when I first went in to get help, I didn't expect that this would happen. I just wanted enough relief for the pain to stop. And when I was given a new life, a complete new lease on life, my career bounce back stronger. My love life bounce back stronger. My finances bounce back stronger. My body bounce back stronger when all of this happened. Um, it was just such a gift that came by surprise because I CA I was willing to just tell someone that I was hurting. So good. Thank you for that. Speaker 2 00:52:37 Uh, and only just like you didn't do it overnight either. It's one step at a time guys, one step at a time don't get discouraged. Don't look at the numbers because this is what happened to me. I looked at the number like, Whoa, I almost have a hundred pounds to lose. I can't no way, you know, but once I looked at it as, Nope, I'll just start today with whatever I can do today. And then tomorrow I started the same. I'll just do today. What I can do today. Right. So that's all you can do, right. Because if you look at the number, like if you want to look at the numbers, somebody said to you, okay, Johnny, we're gonna go for 300 pounds. You would be like, exactly, exactly. Right. You would've just exactly what you would've done. Laughed or cried and be like, I'm never going to be able to do this. Speaker 2 00:53:19 Yeah. So just one bit at a time guys, one bit at a time, one moment, a time, one bite at a time. And there's a lot of great programs even now on virtual, on T you know, you can just turn on your computer and find a lot of great information out there. So don't be discouraged because sometimes even I get discouraged when my weight goes up a little, I'm like, Oh no, what am I doing wrong? You know, it's like, just, don't be discouraged one day at a time. Right. You didn't get there overnight, Johnny. I'm sure it took you some time to get there. Speaker 1 00:53:49 Right? Exactly. And I'll say, you know, if listeners have any questions, I'm happy to, I'm happy to answer. I'm sure you will too. Nina. Um, my email is Johnny J O H N N [email protected]. And you can find me on Facebook at, uh, refractive coaching and, uh, or you can go to my website, refractive coaching.com. And I'm happy to give more specifics. Um, I didn't want to go too deep into those on the podcast, but I'm happy to give those on a one-on-one and Nina, if people have questions about your journey, what do you recommend? Speaker 2 00:54:24 So they can find me at, uh, they can email me actually a hello at straight talk, no sugar added.com. Same thing for all of my Twitter handles. It's all of my handles. Actually, it's a no sugar added.com. So straight talk, no sugar added.com. But, um, Johnny, I really, really highly recommend that people do reach out to you. I think that, uh, you, you definitely know what you're doing. I already listened to your podcast. So if anybody, uh, doesn't know, please do go to refractive. Um, he is pretty much on all the platforms I believe. Right? Yeah. And listen, because it is really, really, really insightful. I loved your keynote. That was amazing. I still think about it. It's it was so good. Uh, so I really highly recommend that everybody just goes to your site. I'll make sure to link all of your information as well below. And so that, you know, people can find you and follow you and listen to you and book some coaching sessions. Cause I think it'll be worth their time for sure. Yeah. So this was amazing. This is really good. Speaker 1 00:55:27 And Nina, as I simulcast this episode on my podcast, why don't you tell my listeners who may not be familiar with your podcast, what they could expect if they tuned into different episodes? Speaker 2 00:55:39 So my episodes are really about life topics. That's what I talk about. So I have great thinkers like yourself and people who are coaches, entrepreneurs, business developers, you know, things like that. Come on the show and talk about real life stuff and how they overcame challenges in their lives. How did they become that nine figure business? How did you become a coach? How did you lose your weight? How did you, that's what I want to talk about real life topics to challenge and transform our thinking. Speaker 1 00:56:08 That's right, exactly. Awesome sauce. I'm so I'm so happy that we worked together on this knee and, uh, I'm happy that our listeners get to, um, enjoy each other's, uh, perspectives. Speaker 2 00:56:21 This was amazing. Thank you so much, Johnny. Thank you. Have a great day. Speaker 1 00:56:24 You too. All right, bye. Bye. You have been listening to refractive podcast and this is Johnny G. If you've enjoyed today's episode, do me a favor, give it a share on social media or if you're in the podcast app, give it a rating. If you're on YouTube click, like it really does make a difference in the search results. I am a speaker, coach and facilitator based in Washington, DC, but I work in person and remotely with people who are ready to step with clarity into their most authentic life. If I can be of service, reach out to me, Johnny J O H N N [email protected] have an amazing day. Be good to each other and always remember aim your light.