Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try.
Day after day, you pretend you don't hear it calling. Or maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse. But it's there, ready for you. And it will wait for you as long as you need.
My name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive.
Hello. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Refractive. I'm your host, Johnny G. I'm here today with Todd and Chad, co founders of Pathwise Leadership. Together, they have 30 plus years of experience in leadership development and psychology. They leverage their expertise in the field of psychoanalysis and neuroscience to help leaders achieve self awareness and build high performing teams. Through pathwise leadership, they have empowered more than 5000 leaders across various industries. So I'm really glad to have them on the show today. Welcome, guys. It's wonderful to have you with me.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:01:20] Speaker C: It's great to be here, Johnny.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And so today our topic really focuses on the power of the unconscious. And I love that this is a cornerstone of what you do and what you bring into the world. I wonder, how did this become such an important part of how you serve others?
[00:01:46] Speaker B: When I was a child, really interesting things would happen around me. I could begin to feel what other people were feeling, so be empathic with them. And sometimes things that were really wonderful could happen. And I remember kind of emerging later into life and having adults and others not really seem to understand or respect that. And as I got older into life and pursued college and graduate school and different studies of where meaning comes from, I learned that there's a lot of people like that.
In fact, I think everybody is like that in some ways. And my hope was to be able to connect with people in this sort of authentic way around real things that are really happening and not caught up only and entirely in the sort of mechanics of, of getting along in life and getting in a better position than other people and getting power and wealth, which is valuable, of course. But there's a whole underlying quality of life that I valued and I always wanted to share with others a long practice of academics and psychotherapist and dean and working with children.
Eventually, Chad and I together decided that we wanted to bring something like this to adults who were both very successful and very sensitive.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: Would you say that what the two of you do, it's something along the lines of coaching? Would you say it's something along the lines of psychoanalysis. Like where is the sweet spot for the services that you offer?
[00:03:47] Speaker C: It's probably somewhere in between those two things and neither of them. Also, when I talk to people about our company, I think of it as two things that sort of accidentally came together that don't usually go together, and that's deep. Psychodynamic, psychoanalytic, jungian psychology, developmental psychology, directly taught in a non watered down form to leaders who are wanting to know themselves, who recognize that, like in our earlier discussion, that it may be something about them that is getting in the way of even being a better leader with more responsibilities. And then also really understanding people in a much, much deeper level, like a psychologist, could be really useful for their work and for meaning and their home lives.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: So do you take the path of, let's say, workshops and trainings and also then work one on one with leaders as well? So you offer both of those things, or do you stay more on one or the other side of those?
[00:05:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say that the primary thing is the classes. We have classes between eight and twelve people, and originally they were all in person. Now they're all in person. Or everybody can also be through teams or zoom.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: And that group of people then go through a process together that I would say resembles. For me, it's a duplication of when I was in graduate school. So these ideas would be revealed to these small groups of people around the brain or around how we relate to each other. Each other. And all the people in the class were these really bright, intelligent people interested in this. And then we would talk about it and the teacher would facilitate it in a way where it's almost like a group therapy, but it came out of the academic. So it's sort of this teetering balance between the two. So it's something like that that I think that we bring to our customers and then we support it afterwards. Like sometimes we go so deep and there's things that people want to share in the group, it's not time. And then we can work with them individually around specifically. Like my boss is this and I am this, and how do I make this a better relationship?
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: And so it can get very specific in the individual sessions, but it's all in support of the end of the program.
My understanding, in a sense, is that the goal of coaching is to help people through a process and to grow as people. I would say that the grow, the purpose of pathwise is to grow people psychologically to a more complex and intelligent age where they can see what's happening so that later, when they're in a totally different situation, that capacity is still there and they can meet it.
So it's a very flexible way of thinking.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: It feels like a really lovely mission, and I'd like to circle back to that a little bit later in the episode. You know, I certainly have my own experiences with getting to know the puppet strings that pull me from behind the curtain and just the life changing power of understanding why I feel the way I feel, see the way I see, think the way I think, decide the way I decide. You know, it really gave me agency to be able to choose along the lines of, well, let me see. I was going to say choose along the lines of my values, but my values do drive these kind of knee jerk reactions. So what am I really trying to say? I think that by they allow me to choose more skillfully, to decide more skillfully when I'm able to recognize what's going on behind the scenes in my mind. And, yeah, it's been a game changer for me, and I'm sure that you see that in the work that you do all the time.
Yeah. I wonder if we can get a little bit technical on this stuff. Would it be okay if I asked you a couple of questions around the subconscious and your expertise around that? Sure.
[00:08:10] Speaker B: Yeah, of course.
[00:08:12] Speaker A: You know, as I was considering our line of conversation for this episode, I realized that I'm not sure that I'm really clear on the difference between unconscious and subconscious. And maybe there is a difference. Maybe there's not a difference. Would either of you be willing to share some insights on that?
[00:08:34] Speaker C: Well, I think the subconscious is a word people use, and it minimizes maybe what is really the unconscious. And when I think about the unconscious, I think about something that could be vaster than even the outside world and really, totally unknown to us. And so, you know, in our, you know, so this is where it goes from very, very practical insights and understandings about oneself to all into the spiritual, you know, spiritual questions.
So I think subconscious, kind of, my opinion, sort of minimizes what is a much bigger and faster and more mysterious concept or phenomenon called, we'd call the unconscious.
[00:09:21] Speaker A: So. Oh, I'm sorry. Please go ahead.
[00:09:24] Speaker C: I was just going to say, you know, technically, and, you know, when we take, when people go through pathways, one of the things that on this sort of journey of going through these classes over the course of the year and sometimes many years very early on, what people start to become conscious of that they were previously unconscious of is their conditioning.
You know, like, how we're how we're constantly, particularly in times when we're under a lot of stress and ambiguity, we're really reliving these childhood experiences that produce, in some people, depending on type, shame other people, you know, rage and anger, other people, overwhelming fear. And these different aspects are totally unconscious, and they lead to not just emotional experiences, but how we perceive reality.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
[00:10:21] Speaker C: And so this is why, like, when I was. I worked in business early in my twenties and then decided I love psychology, all these wonderful conversations I had with Todd and really decided to make a career change, basically because I thought, why don't we know this stuff?
Like, this concept I'm talking about now is transference. It's basically like transferring. We're transferring to early childhood situations. You know, everybody thinks I'm a disappointment, something like that. Now I'm 40 years old, and that's the way I feel. And I react to that as if it's the truth. And those are precisely the ways that we get it, get in our own way, right?
[00:10:59] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. When I work with coaching clients, the first thing, and I'm sure most coaches follow this pattern, the first thing that we do is discuss values, motivators, fears, so that we can understand what's going on and what is being satisfied by either healthy decisions or self sabotage or whatever the case might be.
And a lot of times, like, for instance, I had. I had a client mention to me that, you know, one of my values is fun, and I have fun when I win.
And I'm like, that is fascinating. Like, that's fascinating, you know, because it's like, what is. What is that satisfying? Like, what is. What's. What's. What's two layers underneath that, you know, what's going on? And I feel like it's so powerful to digest into that, even if it's raw, even if it's uncomfortable and sometimes unpleasant to do that.
It seems like the study of the mind is really still in its infancy. So I wonder, what do we actually know and how can we leverage that knowledge?
[00:12:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm really glad you asked that. So, one of the things that you had said a little bit earlier was about observing. You began to observe these patterns that you had in your life.
So, fundamentally, that begins the first question, like, who is it that's observing?
[00:12:38] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Is it this ordinary consciousness that's talking right now, you and I?
Maybe not so much, because I can actually observe that I'm talking right now, which begins to, so, who is it that's talking and in this ordinary way? And who is it that can see that? And if I begin to see myself talk in this sort of ordinary way, what I call ordinary consciousness, I can see that there's feelings underneath it, that as soon as I become aware, I can see that I'm excited or I'm passionate or irritated, and all that was unconscious or subconscious at the edge of consciousness until this observer begins to observe what I'm feeling embedded in what I think is ordinary consciousness, which then is very interesting. And I'm just trying to open up a question.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:34] Speaker B: Is ordinary consciousness, most of the time, unconscious?
[00:13:41] Speaker A: I don't even know what to say to that.
[00:13:45] Speaker B: And who is this observer in relationship to that? Because maybe this observer, which is in Buddhism or in psychoanalysis or in any sort of real mindfulness practice, this observer brings a light in a different way than me thinking about these ideas in an ordinary way.
So it really just sort of opens it up. Who am I?
What is consciousness?
There's. I remember one of my favorite stories. Chad and I have been teaching this for a while, and I've been asking people this question for about 20 years.
You know, who is my attention?
What is my attention?
And every time I'll have a room full of really brilliant people, and then, oh, it's when I focus it, that's what my attention is.
But what about jazz music? In jazz music, you open up the senses.
It's wider.
What is it? And so about 25 years ago, I was working in a psychiatric hospital, and there's a five year old kid there. I used to do poetry therapy with these kids, and I remember asking them, what is attention?
And this one little five year old has said it the most wonderful way that I've ever heard it. And he said, well, Todd, that attention is me.
That's who I am.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: And most of the time, I just think I am my thinking or my reactions for.
And so it's really interesting. What is this attention?
And can this attention go into my ordinary life patterns? And maybe it can go into this extraordinary life that's in the unconscious, that most of the time I blur out one last little bit. I do want to say that I think Chad was alluding to, which is so in my unconscious is all my patterns. I don't know about habits and stuff, but if you've ever really loved someone, a child or a partner or spouse that love, most of the time, we hide in our unconscious, too. It's like we're terrified to let our attention ourselves, feel the wonder of our life.
[00:16:09] Speaker A: Mmm.
[00:16:11] Speaker C: Right.
[00:16:12] Speaker B: So it's all the unconscious is just all the stuff that we're hiding from, because I live in this day to day, very narrow, ordinary me.
[00:16:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. There are these two spiritual writers that I really respect, and they're both fairly well known, but they both talk from a different perspective about the fear of my magnificence.
Like, one of them is Caroline Mace.
Her name is spelled m y s s, but it's pronounced mace. And she once gave this talk and she said if we had any idea the power of our thoughts, we would be frightened to leave the house. Like, if we had any idea of the implications of our ability to speak into reality, our thoughts, like, it would be alarming. And so this idea that as a spark of the creator myself, I am also a creator. And that, um. And that I can create consciously or I can create unconsciously, but I'm always creating, uh, regardless. And I think Chad referenced earlier about this idea of. Of how I am perceiving reality, how I'm creating my reality. I mean, it really comes down to that. And then Marianne Williamson has this, um, this very famous quote about, uh, what we're really scared of is our magnificence. We're not scared of how small we are. We're scared of how big we are. And that if we ever truly owned the power and magnificence of who and what we are, then, you know, there's nowhere else to hide. You know, all the cards are on the table. And so, I mean, there's just so much to uncover when we consider.
[00:18:22] Speaker C: This.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: World going on behind the scenes, as.
[00:18:25] Speaker C: You say, well, then, you know, then this course begs the question, why don't we just go there if we know it, right? So I have. I was thinking of a question. It's kind of an exercise question along this. Like, why don't we just go there?
[00:18:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:42] Speaker C: So, like, when I shared earlier about when we're living in these stories that are literally like our reality, we're reliving childhood perceptions and emotions and reacting to those.
And in many ways, this blocks us. It blocks us because it's full of fear from experiencing love.
Why don't we just go there if we know it?
It's a question.
So let me ask you this question. If someone said today, I can give you a shot, and within 15 minutes, you're going to be more yourself and you're just going to feel love all the time, in total compassion, what would you, what would start happening in your head?
Like, that would be your new self.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: Yeah. I would be curious if you know.
[00:19:36] Speaker C: Yourself, and you feel love all the time and compassion all the time. What would you.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, like, I'd want to. I mean, like, on one hand, it's like I recognize that, like, there's no shortcuts to spiritual growth. And at the other hand, like, I want to know more, you know?
[00:19:52] Speaker C: But some part of you is probably scared.
Like, who am I going to become? Because we're so familiar with ourselves and what we experience as ourselves so often includes these early childhood emotions, you know, little traumas and perception. It feels like us all the time and that's why we're trapped in it. And it's unconscious.
[00:20:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:14] Speaker C: And even we can know it intellectually, kind of know it. It still doesn't help. It's just this, what Todd's talking about, this kind of attention, a free attention that isn't so caught up in all of this, is really a different possibility.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: So I'll throw this out to the two of you then. Like, what is helpful and what is unhelpful within the unconscious mind? Like, if I'm looking for to be aware of the unhelpful elements and I'm looking to leverage the helpful elements, like, what does that involve?
[00:20:52] Speaker B: It's interesting. From a psychoanalytic perspective, the goal is to make what's unconscious conscious, okay? And we don't know what's in there.
[00:21:01] Speaker A: But that doesn't seem possible, right? Like, I mean, the unconscious world is infinite, so how can I just make, how can I make that conscious?
[00:21:09] Speaker B: Well, I mean, there's probably some mystics that have it happen all at once, but for the rest of us, it's a process of opening up a little more and a little more. And even that little more feels immense and terrifying. Like Chad's saying, I remember when I was in graduate school and I was studying psychoanalytic ideas and everything was about these patterns that we learned since childhood. And so the freudian perspective is mostly sort of open those first, and then when those are open, maybe there's other things. And then I actually ran, I had a therapy practice and I ran into Marianne Williamson, the quote that you said.
And I was like, yeah, that's there too. And what was magical that happened soon after is I found a book. And this doesn't have to do with Pathwise, but she, Miriam Williamson, wrote the intro for the whole book. Like this large six page intro for this book by PD Aspensky called in Search of the Miraculous.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: And in that, by the way, it's interesting because I think he's this, he's really?
And some of this even started, I think, some of the twelve step programs and stuff that people don't know. But in this, like, magically, then, like eight pages in, there's this section where he talks about the attention that just blows my mind. It's like I have this attention and I'm always just letting it flow out to everything and I'm not letting any of it stay. Back then, I didn't know what that means. But now I think it's like I have to include the unconscious in my attention as I live my life.
Like, it's here, right? It's not over that hill, it's not around that corner. It's right now.
Like, right now, I'm caring about this topic and you and this audience enough that I can actually start to feel this love come forth from the unconscious.
And that's the attention, in a way, is the doorway.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: Well, that certainly feels very valid.
Eckhart Tolle talks about his big awakening moment when it was like, wait, who is the I? Right? In my mind, like, who is. If, you know, if I am upset, then who is. Who's the I? Who is me? Like, what are all of these different facets? And, like, what's going on back here? And, like, that was enough to shake him out of his. His own kind of world of illusion.
And I wonder then if we have these unhelpful elements that we might carry from childhood, right? Like, my parents, you know, you know, they expect me to fail or, like, I'm not a serious person or whatever the case is. And I carry these beliefs in.
And as a coach, like, I deal with a lot of people who are burdened with these beliefs. How do we begin to undead, tangle that and unprogram and find freedom?
You know, I started to find freedom through working with the twelve steps.
There was a really specific process. But for people who are not in that environment, like, how do. How do people. How do people cope? How do people heal?
[00:24:54] Speaker B: Yeah, there's this, and I'll speak briefly, so to make sure there's enough time for Chad. But there's this idea of generational. This is a reframing, and it has buddhisty parts to it, but it's probably a little different, too, which is we have, you could think that we all have generational trauma that's passed down since whenever humanity started. And probably even animals have trauma, right? So there's this whole generational trauma, and some of it's reset by society. So it's not just your family, but there's all this trauma, and your parents had trauma, and your grandparents had trauma, and their grandparents. And so this is all this. And so you see this line, this buddhist idea that we're all suffering, and now it's my turn to the baton has been passed to do what I can with my inheritance.
And it sounds miserable, but it's a framing where doing my work passes on less trauma into the future.
And with that, what I've also found as a fact in my own work, that any work in that direction where I become aware of and I struggle with and I suffer is directly proportional to how much joy and love I'm now open for.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: Okay, well, that's an aha moment right there.
Yeah.
What about you, Chad? What are your thoughts?
[00:26:24] Speaker C: Well, I mean, I think where my mind went with that question is to sort of think of how do you make the unconscious conscious? How do you become aware of this stuff? I mean, obviously, if you're. You're open to somebody else and you really trust somebody else and they give you feedback about some things you do and how you are, you can see some things that way that you didn't see before because your ego is open.
You know, it's vulnerable, it's humbled.
But this other.
How do I see myself in the moment without necessarily the help of the other people? And one of the problems is that when I'm sort of caught up in whatever that story is, I think that kind of, like, your consciousness is working at a certain speed, and it starts going, well, I need to know myself now, and so I need to really look around and see what's going on. And everywhere I look, I see nothing, or I see all the same. And it's because it's this same consciousness at the same working at the same speed that I've been trying to look at with it. You know what I mean?
It's like trying to analyze yourself. It doesn't work very well. But with this attention in being present in the moment, sometimes there can appear another level of consciousness. And it works at a speed that's capable of seeing stuff that's slower than it.
And you get a moment of a kind of aha moment of seeing something that's kind of going on in yourself that maybe even you knew or thought about, but you weren't really seeing it.
[00:27:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:01] Speaker C: And in these moments, it's kind of a revelation.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: Does the concept of neuroplasticity play into this, or is that separate and outside the scope of this?
[00:28:17] Speaker B: For me, it definitely plays. So if you think of your brain, one of the things that I think is useful to make psychology tangible versus just in a box is if you look at the brain as like you're in a plane flying over the United States and you see all these cities and they're connected by highways and superhighways and it's all lit up at nighttime. So it's hardwired, right. Our brains are hardwired almost exactly like that. So when you say neuroplasticity, you mean I'm going to get off this highway and I'm going to start building new highways in this other direction. A, completely doable and b, it actually takes a lot of conscious effort or some sort of mentoring effort to do something new.
[00:29:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: It doesn't just happen. And that is equally for finding how to live a healthier life as it is for finding yourself and living yourself as much as it is for a spiritual path. The spiritual path requires this plasticity, this part of the brain to be able to take in these new experiences of life as especially for someone who hasn't had it, so that the brain and the spirit are working very much together.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: What I have, I guess the method that I've defaulted to in my own inner work around insecurities or fears or other ego related issues, is that, okay, I have this belief over here, I'm not lovable, I'm fat, whatever, whatever the insecurity of the day is, and now have the ability to absorb contrasting data points. So when someone tells me, Johnny, I love you, I get to absorb that and say, okay, so that's not powerful enough for me to negate this belief system over here, but it's another data point on the chart. And over time I've built up data points. Now I have 20 or 30 people who told me they love me in some way. And it's like, okay, this point still exists over here. The idea that I'm not lovable still exists over here. It has not evaporated yet. When it comes to the fore, I also can proactively bring to the fore these 20 or 30 other data points which seem largely valid as well. And I can then choose more skillfully in how I respond to my insecurities.
I can do scary things because I have gathered data points that allow me to not rely on this painful single point that's driven me for decades. That's been the method for my own inner healing and growth path that has benefited me. And I wonder is that I don't know how universal of an, of a healing experience that is. I don't know if that's how it works for everybody, I don't know if the two of you have different methodologies or perspectives on how to reprogram those things. I'd love to hear from you.
[00:32:05] Speaker B: I've got something. Oh, go ahead, Chad.
[00:32:09] Speaker C: So, one aspect of this is I become so interested in, say, my insecurity and wanting that not to be there, which ends up becoming kind of another judgment. And when I'm lost in that space, it's extremely difficult to bring in any other data, even though it's all around. Right.
What's interesting to me, and I find helpful, is to be interested in attention, and in particular, an attention that is gentle and accepting of the whole of myself.
And when I'm in contact with that, then that's very healing.
And so, in a way, it's like being more interested in attention, in the possibilities of attention, than in my insecurities and shadows.
[00:33:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:15] Speaker B: I completely agree with Chad. And I agree with you, too, Johnny. It's the sense that this attention that maybe is me, cannot be identified with doing things the same old way.
And because it can be free, it can separate that separation can build and become stronger and stronger and stronger and stronger until I'm much more free. And it can include this compassion Chad's talking about, because the attention doesn't have to be cold, and it can accept the whole of myself, and it can. Which also includes. It can begin to accept also these other feedbacks that I'm getting that are new cities that are much more. I am a good person.
It can accept all of that.
And the other thing that Chad emphasized that I'd like to push again, the only time that's possible is right now.
[00:34:19] Speaker A: Yeah. The power of the present. Yeah.
[00:34:23] Speaker B: All. All the leverage is the attention right.
[00:34:26] Speaker A: Now, you know, as we. As we kind of begin to circle back and wrap up the content here today. There was a podcast guest a couple of years back who came and talked about meditation and many different methodologies for meditation. And I had this kind of aha moment that a meditation is anything that I pour my awareness into.
And he talked about, for example, his favorite meditation is the Haagen Dazs meditation, where, like, he eats his ice cream, and, like, it's the only thing that is happening, happening is the spoon and the ice cream, you know? And I think about when, let's say, a favorite song comes on the radio, and, like, I am just overtaken by my attention to this song, by how much I love the song, you know, that's a meditation. Or when I'm in. I'm experiencing grief, and there's nothing that exists but my awareness of the grief, that I'm fully in it. Like, that's a meditation, that anytime I bring my full, not my full focus, my awareness to a particular element and pour into it, that that is me accessing myself. Like, that is me getting closer to my true essence. Um, and as you two have continued to talk about, attention like that kept coming up for me. And I wonder, what are your thoughts around that?
[00:36:22] Speaker C: Well, um, I like it.
You know, I think, um, there's great, uh, possibilities for all of us that are in a regular kind of meditation, in a sort of a proper sitting posture on a chair or in a cushion. I think there's possibilities there that may not be in some of the other, you know, the Haagen Daz version. Or so I think to it. For starters, it's good to have a regular sitting practice. But these other things are wonderful. You know, I remember I'd get on the ferry, I live on Bainbridge island in Seattle, and I'd get on the ferry to go to work, and I'd take phone calls and stuff. And then one day I decided to put my seat sort of in half recline and let myself go to sleep if I wanted to, but not. But if I didn't want to. And I would have this wonderful experience for half an hour. And I called it napitation.
Nowadays I protect it. I don't want any calls coming in when I'm on the ferry because I don't have my napitation time. Yeah. Finding something. So finding the haggadah or for someone else, it might be, you know, a walk in the forest and.
Yeah.
[00:37:46] Speaker A: Beautiful. Beautiful.
If listeners are interested in learning more about the way the two of you and pathwise serves the world, the services you offer, what would you recommend as far as their access?
[00:38:06] Speaker C: Well, we have. Our website is pathwise leadership.com.
you can find us on LinkedIn and. Yeah, LinkedIn, right, Todd? Yeah.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:38:20] Speaker B: Chad hat triphenhe.
H a t t r u p or Todd hollow best.
[00:38:27] Speaker A: And that's hollow like the word and b I s t. Yeah. Yes.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: Excellent. Can I make one last comment on that?
[00:38:35] Speaker A: I love it.
[00:38:36] Speaker B: Please do. And it's. I do. I love the theme of the Haagen Dazs meditation, by the way.
[00:38:41] Speaker C: That's.
[00:38:41] Speaker B: That's a gift that you've given me.
Yeah. When. Anytime for me. And I think it aligns with what both of you are saying, anytime that my attention isn't imprisoned in the confines of my ordinary day to day consciousness, which is 99% of the day, you could call it meditation.
And I might need to snap out through really hugging my child or allowing myself to feel the grief I do, or I eating Haagen Dazs.
And all of that, I think, is in the service of even freer attention because I think that the attention, which this is very rarely spoken about, has an intelligence, that awareness has an intel. It may actually be trying to lead me to more freedom.
[00:39:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
Oh yes, I'm there with you on that. I love that.
Thank you.
You're welcome. Gentlemen, I'm so happy that you joined me today on the show and thank you for sharing your deep knowledge and your experiences here. I think there's so much value in looking within and understanding what's going on beneath the surface. You know, I sometimes when I'm, if I'm out at a bar or something and someone says, oh, you're a coach, coach me, right?
I say, all right, listen, I can save you all the money and all the time with three questions, right? These three questions are everything you need. You'll never need a coach if you really have the guts to go deep into these three questions or to these three statements. Number one, you already know.
Stop. Number two, you already are.
Full stop. Number three, the answers are in the stillness.
Bam. Like you don't need anything else. To live a fulfilling life like that is how to access the perfect treasure map that we're all born with for joy and fulfillment and serenity.
If only I have the willingness to go there, you know? And yeah, I just really appreciate the gifts that you brought today to the episode. And yeah, thank you so much.
[00:41:19] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:41:20] Speaker A: Yeah, everyone, thanks for tuning in today and for giving a listen to this episode. As you go out in the world and you come across people who were just doing their best to get their needs met, remember to aim your light. Take care.
You've been listening to refractive podcast and this is Johnny G. If you found today's content uplifting, if you think it might make somebody's day better, give it a share on social media, click like subscribe. All those things help to expand this podcast availability to new audiences.
I'm a speaker, a coach, a facilitator based out of Washington, DC, but I travel a lot. If you think I can be of service to you or to your organization, help people get unstuck or move into their authentic power, shoot me an email. My email address is refractivepodcastmail.com dot. Take care. Thanks for listening and aim your light.
